Spiders are the only web developers that enjoy finding bugs.

(#pnhhnxa) @eldersnake@we.loveprivacy.club Yeah, it’s really the last thing we need. I’d love to see X11 getting more attention – but not like this …

In case you were blissfully unaware: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/unix/XLibreIsExplicitlyPolitical

(#gixfeuq) @bender@twtxt.net This should be a core feature, no configuration required. 🤔

(#rj7o6zq) @kat@yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz On the one hand, all these programs have a very long history and the technology behind manpages is actually very powerful – you can use it to write books:

https://www.troff.org/pubs.html

I have two books from that list, for example “The UNIX programming environment”:

https://movq.de/v/c3dab75c97/upe.jpg

It’s a bit older, of course, but it looks and feels like a normal book, and it uses the same tech as manpages – which I think is really cool. 😎

It’s comparable to LaTeX (just harder/different to use) but much faster than LaTeX. You can also do stuff like render manpages as a PDF (man -Tpdf cp >cp.pdf) or as an HTML file (man -Thtml cp >cp.html). I think I once made slides for a talk this way.

On the other hand, traditional manpages (i.e., ones that are not written in mandoc) do not use semantic markup. They literally say, “this text is bold, that text over here is italics”, and so on.

So when you run man foo, it has no other choice but to show it in black, white, bold, underline – showing it in color would be wrong, because that’s not what the source code of that manpage says.

Colorizing them is a hack, to be honest. You’re not meant to do this. (The devs actually broke this by accident recently. They themselves aren’t really aware that people use colors.)

If mandoc and semantic markup was more commonly used, I think it would be easier to convince the devs to add proper customizable colors.

(#yxdhota) @arne@uplegger.eu lol 😅

(#gixfeuq) (Just for fun, SuSE Linux 6.4 from ~25 years ago: https://movq.de/v/dc62d0256c/s.png )

(#rj7o6zq) @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org @kat@yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz Colorized manpages have been a thing for a very long time:

https://movq.de/v/81219d7f7a/s.png

Problem is, hardly anybody knows this, because you configure this by … drumroll … overwriting TERMCAP entries of less in your ~/.bashrc:

export LESS_TERMCAP_md=$'\e[38;5;3m'      # Bold
    export LESS_TERMCAP_me=$'\e[0m'           # End Bold
export LESS_TERMCAP_us=$'\e[4;38;5;6m'    # Underline
    export LESS_TERMCAP_ue=$'\e[0m'           # End Underline
export GROFF_NO_SGR=1                     # Needed since groff 1.23

Speaking of manpages:

“Man pages are great, man readers are the problem”

https://whynothugo.nl/journal/2025/04/09/man-pages-are-great-man-readers-are-the-problem/

mandoc is nicer to read/write than the man macro package and, most importantly, it’s semantic markup.

HTML output is a bit broken in GNU groff, though (OpenBSD on the left, GNU on the right):

https://movq.de/v/f1898e648f/s.png

🤔

Still, I’m inclined to convert my manpages to mandoc.

(#qbiclia) @kat@yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz I still haven’t tried it. 🤐 Some day, perhaps …

(#jqzgbha) @kiwu@twtxt.net Hello. 😅

In 1996, they came up with the X11 “SECURITY” extension:

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4w548u/what_is_up_with_the_x11_security_extension/

This is what could have (eventually) solved the security issues that we’re currently seeing with X11. Those issues are cited as one of the reasons for switching to Wayland.

That extension never took off. The person on reddit wonders why – I think it’s simple: Containers and sandboxes weren’t a thing in 1996. It hardly mattered if X11 was “insecure”. If you could run an X11 client, you probably already had access to the machine and could just do all kinds of other nasty things.

Today, sandboxing is a thing. Today, this matters.

I’ve heard so many times that “X11 is beyond fixable, it’s hopeless.” I don’t believe that. I believe that these problems are solveable with X11 and some devs have said “yeah, we could have kept working on it”. It’s that people don’t want to do it:

Why not extend the X server?

Because for the first time we have a realistic chance of not having to do that.

https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html

I’m not in a position to judge the devs. Maybe the X.Org code really is so bad that you want to run away, screaming in horror. I don’t know.

But all this was a choice. I don’t buy the argument that we never would have gotten rid of things like core fonts.

All the toolkits and programs had to be ported to Wayland. A huge, still unfinished effort. If that was an acceptable thing to do, then it would have been acceptable to make an “X12” that keeps all the good things about X11, remains compatible where feasible, eliminates the problems, and requires some clients to be adjusted. (You could have still made “X11X12” like “XWayland” for actual legacy programs.)

(#u53cqtq) I wasn’t really aware until recently that programs can’t choose their own window’s position on Wayland. This is very weird to me, because this was not an issue on X11 to begin with: X11 programs can request a certain position and size, but the X11 WM ultimately decides if that request is being honored or not. And users can configure that.

But apparently, this whole thing is a heated debate in the Wayland world. 🤔

“Wayland Will Never Be Ready For Every X.Org User”

https://youtu.be/yURfsJDOw1E

(#bjsafpq) This is just the universe telling me to reduce my screen time.

(#bjsafpq) @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org To be fair, I did first notice this a while ago. But no monitor I ever had showed burn-ins like this (be it TFT or CRT), so I didn’t know that I should have sent it back. And then it got worse over time and now I see ghost images after 20-30 minutes. :(

(#bfqwkwa) @kat@yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz Ooooooohhhhh, nice 😲

(#zwhvoea) Really, it won’t be long until I give the world the finger and move everything behind Gopher or Gemini. It’ll be a while until the bots find me there.

(#2ncepxq) @prologic@twtxt.net I’d expect a custom build like that to cost at least 50’000€ here in Europe. Used campers with 100’000 - 200’000 km already on their clock are 20-40k€, apparently. 😆

Bloody AI clowns:

https://movq.de/v/34ccfc125c/s.png

How many IPs am I supposed to block, eh?

(#k7fyycq) @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Looks like it. 🤔 Didn’t dig deeper into this, just uninstalled it. 🥴

(#bjsafpq) @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org 4 years. 🫤

Do I buy a new monitor or do I live with the burn-ins all the time? It’s getting annoying. When I edit images in GIMP, I have to double check if something is a pixel or a burn-in.

(#v36orfa) @prologic@twtxt.net If anything looks expensive, then it’s that. 😅

(#lnzctjq) (Now why is that GNOME gcr thing running with debug logs enabled that print stuff like “sending secret exchange: …”? Is this healthy?)

You know you’re getting old when there’s quite a few scripts in your ~/bin that you use daily, but you haven’t edited them once in well over 10 years …

(#boiotxq) @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org “Advanced”, well, probably more “mature”. There aren’t a ton of crazy features and that icon thing is the largest code addition in the last 10 years. %)

Speaking of OS/2 … I just realized that Windows 3.x didn’t have icons, either. If I’m not mistaken, this only got added in Windows 95. In other words, OS/2 had this feature before Windows did, because at least OS/2 2.1 from 1993 had icons. Who would have thunk.

(Now I kind of want to know which system really introduced this feature.)

(#wz2auca) @kat@yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz dmenu is such a great tool. So simple, yet so versatile.

(#boiotxq) @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Oh, huh, maybe it was just my GNOME 2 themes back then that didn’t show the icon. 🤔

I like the looks of your window manager. That’s using Wayland, right?

Oh, no. It’s still X11. All my recent Wayland comments resulted from me trying to switch, but I think it’s still too early. Being unable to use QEMU (because it can’t capture the mouse pointer) is a pretty big blocker for me. This is completely broken, it just happens to be unnoticeable with modern guest OSes, so it’s probably not a priority for devs.

(Not to mention that I would have to fork and substantially extend dwl in order to “replicate” my X11 WM. And then, after having done that, I’d have to follow upstream Wayland development, for which I don’t have the resources. Things would need to slow down before I can do that.)

all that wasted space of the windows not making use of the full screen!!!1

Heh. I’ve been using tiling WMs for ~15 years now, so it’s actually kind of refreshing to see something different for a change. 😅

Probably close to the older Windowses.

That particular theme is a ripoff of OS/2 Warp 3: https://movq.de/v/6c2a948882/s.png 😅

We ran some similar brownish color scheme (don’t recall its name) on Win95 or Win98

Oh god. Yeah, I wasn’t a fan of those, either. 🥴

(#boiotxq) @lyse@lyse.isobeef.org True, at least old versions of KDE had icons:

https://movq.de/v/0e4af6fea1/s.png

GNOME, on the other hand, didn’t, at least to my old screenshots from 2007:

https://www.uninformativ.de/desktop/2007%2D05%2D25%2D%2Dgnome2%2Dlaptop.png

I switched to Linux in 2007 and no window manager I used since then had icons, apparently. Crazy. An icon-less existence for 18 years. (But yeah, everything is keyboard-driven here as well and there are no buttons here, either.)

Anyway, my draft is making progress:

https://movq.de/v/5b7767f245/s.png

I do like this look. 😊