(#5pe3caq) Fascinating reading: Death by PowerPoint: the slide that killed seven people (Columbia Shuttle)

(#rm3puaa) @prologic@twtxt.net Oh for sure. I just would prefer if the twtxt file could be consumed raw inasmuch as possible; that seems to me to be one of the main points of a raw text-based format vs something more structured. But as you say, this doesn’t really break that. As I say, a clever workaround to an annoying flaw in the original spec. 😉

(#pv7ouaq) @caesar@twtxt.net Yeah, I’ll probably be making some kind of toy project in Go to test it out and see how it fit me when empty handed. 😏

(#rm3puaa) @prologic@twtxt.net Ah cheers. Pity the original spec doesn’t allow real newlines, maybe with indentation or escaping a-la-Markdown to indicate continuation lines… but using \u2028 is a clever solution to working around that limitation.

(#pv7ouaq) @prologic@twtxt.net I love most of the modern Javascript syntax, including arrow functions (this doesn’t include JSX, which is not Javascript and I hate it 🙈) but I do agree that terseness can go too far to the point of getting in the way of readability – definitely an issue with Python IMO. Honestly the only good thing about Python in my opinion is the ecosystem, particularly for data science.
I do like Go from my very limited experience with it; I will definitely be using it more.

(#pv7ouaq) @prologic@twtxt.net Yeah, I was planning to try it myself in the future, there’s seems to be lot of other Python developers that made the switch for the same reason.

I prefer working on the frontend the most, but I’ll surely get my hands on it sooner or later. 😎

@prologic@twtxt.net how do newlines in twts work? I see they don’t show up in the raw twtxt.txt (in my browser at least). The twtxt spec seems (?) to forbid actual newlines, so I’m guessing you are using some sort of workaround specific to Yarn?

(#35kn2ia) @prologic@twtxt.net Huh, supply chain problems, who’d’a thunk it 😆😫 Definitely not going to get better in the short (medium?🤔) term…

(#35kn2ia) @mckinley@twtxt.net I was lucky in a way: I was homeshooled and my studies were very much self-directed. My parents encouraged my interest in tech though they are complete muggles themselves and couldn’t teach me anything about it, so I was entirely self-taught – like many geeks, it seems. As for schools, I do think the situation is improving, at least from what I’ve heard from friends with school-age kids. @prologic@twtxt.net’s experience is reassuring. I’m sure it varies hugely from area to area though; it definitely needs to be a part of national curricula.

(#35kn2ia) @prologic@twtxt.net

you’ll love what my company is trying to do here

I’m intrigued… look forward to hearing more!

(#pv7ouaq) @prologic@twtxt.net No problem! 👍

I can understand your reasoning and i know the pure syntax is not the only part involved when developing in general.

I guess when a programming language changes a lot it’s much harder to adapt and break habits.

Having a clear idea of what you expect from your code and language is a lifesaver when working with many people, ever more in open source projects like yarn.

Keep it up! 💪😎

(#knoga2q) @ullarah@txt.quisquiliae.com Ugh, please no! 😫 As a user I hate those interstitial pages, because they add an unwanted step between me and the page I’m trying to get to, and they obscure the real target of the link (also they’re often used for user tracking). And as a web geek I hate the fact that they break the semantic model of a link pointing to its real target, turning external links into faux internal ones.

(#m7o5dpa) @ullarah@txt.quisquiliae.com I’ll try! ✌️

(#m7o5dpa) @prologic@twtxt.net I can agree on JSX and similar but I must say that arrow functions, classes and so on are quite nice once you get used to them.

I too ended up wanting less and less but exactly for that reason I really enjoy those new stuff the platform offers natively.

Anyway, I’ll keep your style as much as I can. 👍

(#7boroia) @prologic@twtxt.net I think the “worst that could happen” is “it would be semantically wrong”. I don’t think it could ever be actively harmful, since it is correctly treated as a claim, not proof of ownership of the target – it can be used to prove ownership of the origin page, but not of the destination.

That said, I would be in favour of making it explicit (ideally in the Metadata spec) that “User Links” SHOULD be “connected to the feed or author”, not just “usually”. This would make the link metadata more semantically useful.

(#7boroia) @david@netbros.com I’m not sure what you mean. rel="me" is just an html attribute which makes a claim that the target of the link belongs to the same person. It doesn’t prove it; unless it’s reciprocal.

(#m7o5dpa) @prologic@twtxt.net Understandable. 😉

Then I’ll try to make my best to make something nice. 😎

One last question, is it okay to go with standard fetch for API calls or you’re planning to use twt.js?

The repo seems archived though.

(#m7o5dpa) @prologic@twtxt.net Great, I’ll check out the PWA first then!👍

While MithrilJS is a good library I find if wasted when not used with JSX, you can probably enhance the syntax by using htm for the templating if you want to keep it light or use the renderer of esbuild directly.

In my projects I usually use uhtml, it’s a simple to use and blazing fast templating library, It doesn’t even use the Shadow DOM the usual JSX rely on, you should try it for your next project. 😜

(#knoga2q) @prologic@twtxt.net Hmm, short of “clarifying” the spec to specifically state that links must be to the user’s own sites, it’s hard to think of a universal solution. I think I’d still err towards assuming that links are to the user’s own pages, since I think they will be in almost all cases, but obviously there’s an argument to be made against making that assumption, too…

(#35kn2ia) @prologic@twtxt.net I think in those days “everyone” on the internet was a geek who loved doing things themselves. Now the internet is used by literally everyone, and most of them don’t understand how it works any better than how their car works. It has to Just Work.

I guess what’s needed is for self-hosting to be one of those things that Just Works, without the average person having to know how. (In addition to educating the public better about what the internet is, of course.)

(#knoga2q) @prologic@twtxt.net Ah sorry, gotcha. 😀
Hmm, you make an interesting point. I would assume that most links a user would add would be to their own profiles, but maybe not all?
The Metadata spec says “A link to some other resource which is often connected to the feed or author”.
I think my inclination would be yes, add it to all of them, but I can also see that a user could put links there that aren’t their own. 🤔

(#m7o5dpa) @prologic@twtxt.net The PWA setup is a bit confusing to me, can you explain how to run it?

I can see that you’re using the templating in the html but i’m lost on how it bind with the backend.

My usual PWA setup is entirely separated from the backend.

I also worked a lot with NodeJS too and now i’m working on creating a bundle-less setup that is light and easy to use and don’t need any tooling at all except for a static server and a browser.

(#m7o5dpa) @prologic@twtxt.net Ok, i’m not used to docker so i need to set it up for working on it.

I never used MithrilJS but it seems to be the usual JSX style of DOM structure.

(#35kn2ia) @prologic@twtxt.net

People don’t want to run their own servers, and never will.

👎 👎 👎

On the face of it it’s a generalisation, but s/People/99.99% of people/ and the statement becomes objectively true.
My opinion on decentralised communications protocols is basically: Being able to run your own instance - easily - is very, very important. But being required to run your own instance dooms the system to failure / being very niche at best. Mastodon is a great example which fails at both; it’s hard to self-host and there’s no obvious canonical instance to sign up to if you don’t want to host your own.

(#knoga2q) @prologic@twtxt.net another nice example is how Mastodon show’s a user’s external link to their own website as “verified” if the target site includes a rel="me" link back to their Mastodon profile, since this “proves” that the person has control of the linked site. I think I’ve seen other sites use it for verification in the same way.

(#knoga2q) @prologic@twtxt.net If you check out someone’s GitHub profile that has a link to that person’s own website, for example you’ll find rel="me" on the link.

(#knoga2q) @prologic@twtxt.net The me value of the HTML rel attribute indicates that the linked page is the same user’s profile on another site. It’s useful for identity consolidation, enabling things like RelMeAuth on the IndieWeb. So it would be nice to be able to have that attribute on links to one’s own website (and to one’s profiles on other sites) from the “User Links” section of our profiles here.

(#xe3yjxq) @prologic@twtxt.net Oh 🤔🤭

(#t47rjwa) @prologic@twtxt.net Maybe it’s harder to get Dendrite working properly (it’s pre-release software after all I guess) but I never had any issue with Synapse, I had it up and running in ~15 minutes. The issue I did have was that it’s a resource hog (mainly because of backfilling large federated rooms) but a few tweaks to caching settings improved that and I’ve been running for over a year with no issues at all.
I do agree it seems over-engineered in many ways, I must say. But overall I’ve been really happy with it and it’s now one of my primary communication platforms.

(#7etv6uq) @prologic@twtxt.net Hmm I don’t recall any trouble getting federation working (with Synapse), what issue are you having? The federation tester is failing on your domain for me; it’s getting a timeout:

Get "https://104.21.85.152:8448/_matrix/key/v2/server": context deadline exceeded

@prologic@twtxt.net have you considered adding rel="me" to “User Links”?

(#7etv6uq) @prologic@twtxt.net I am on Matrix, @caesar:schinas.net.
I’m running Synapse; I’d be very interested to hear your experience with Dendrite as I’ve been considering switching over as soon as push notifications make it to a published release.

(#mcoz7za) @screem@yarn.yarnpods.com Wow haha I’d never thought of Android as having much in the way of customisation options – though I guess some vendors add a lot of that sort of stuff. I’m not one to customise my operating systems much – I like good clean defaults and I don’t really like to change them. I love macOS because I feel it hits the sweet spot there, but I loathe iOS because it’s just too locked down. I don’t care for UI customisation, but how can you forbid me to install my own choice of web browser FFS. Or anything else not blessed by the gods at Apple.

(#7la3hna) @prologic@twtxt.net

Decentralisation starts with decentering yourself.

💯 Great quote. There’s a chicken and egg problem, and those of us who understand the problem and are happy to be early adopters need to be the ones pushing forward hatching more and more eggs until that chicken appears (umm ok idk if that analogy makes sense but you get my drift 😆)

(#7la3hna) @mutefall@twtxt.net

decentralised and distributed (we likely are here now)

Nah. Unless by we you mean us here on Yarn. But as a society, I reckon we’re at least one or two steps before that – I’d go with your “netizens asking why?” at best. Much of society still hasn’t even got to that point honestly.

(#mcoz7za) I wonder how niche the market would actually be? I feel like half the people I know would love a phone that didn’t mean either selling your soul to the world’s biggest advertising company or being locked into an expensive walled garden by the world’s most profitable brand.

@prologic@twtxt.net I’m not so sure there’d be a lack of good apps, I don’t think the situation on the desktop translates well to mobile. Google is pushing flutter pretty hard for mobile and it’s getting pretty good adoption, and it’s inherently cross-platform - Canonical are even using it for desktop apps.

(#fz26dya) @prologic@twtxt.net Then creating bots to automate that is the next step. 😎

(#32wwwza) @prologic@twtxt.net Okay, I’ll check it out! 👍

Sadly, I don’t know Go Lang though, so my help is limited to the HTML/JS parts. 😁

I can probably contribute the most on the pwa repo.

(#nswpp4a) @prologic@twtxt.net Your view from the window is not so gloomy, we have snowfall at all 🥶

(#bxxbuya) @prologic@twtxt.net this is where my interests lie. small and tight-knit communities that are decoupled from centralised systems. i’ve always thought that every human should have their own corner of the internet. or perhaps i’ve watched too much johnny mnemonic. i read the history of yarn and it aligns.

i may or may not have at one time worked at one of these big giants

(#aqsrxaa) @prologic@twtxt.net if this is something you’d be open to a pull-request on, i can likely make it work. i’ve torified some complex things before. will give this a shot!

(#bxxbuya) @david@netbros.com great, will make it a point to visit!

(#nswpp4a) @prologic@twtxt.net Have a fun vacation, have a great time!

(#bxxbuya) @david@netbros.com well said. i’ll set one up that’s open to registration but will use it as my primary pod. time to get busy this evening!

(#djb7lbq) @adi@twtxt.net stacks of various thinkcentres, laptops, proxmox machines.

(#djb7lbq) @adi@twtxt.net this is great. i’m considering putting infrastructure on my own metal at my space.

(#djb7lbq) @adi@twtxt.net thanks! do you also run envs? i saw their tilde and ecosystem which inspired me to start building my own. so great to see some legacy patterns coming back into play

TIL about the Angle of Vanishing Stability.

i really love the idea of yarn.social. this is encouraging me to start my own pod. perhaps some of my connections might join. it’s a clever way of doing things compared to say fediverse or ssb